May 9, 2012
MODERATOR: Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us for this press call today. We are talking about grants to improve nutrition opportunities to SNAP beneficiaries as well as increasing the number of farmers markets participating in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP.
Here in the studio, we have Deputy Secretary Kathleen Merrigan. Reporters, if you'd like to ask a question of the Deputy Secretary, please let us know by pressing Star/1 on your touchtone pad.
And with that, I welcome Deputy Secretary Merrigan.
DEPUTY SECRETARY MERRIGAN: Thanks so much for having me.
So here's the news, Susan. We have, as some people who have checked out AMS's Web site with the Farmers Market Directory — we have about 7,100 farmers markets in the country at this point in time. About 1,500 of those 7,100 farmers markets have electronic benefit transfer capacity that helps our recipients of SNAP, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, formerly known as "food stamps." It helps those participants to go to those farmers markets and use their Federal benefit to buy at the farmers market. But if that's 1,500 farmers markets, why couldn't it be all of them?
Well, we are making an announcement that we have $4 million that's part of the FY '12 budget. We had proposed it to Congress. Congress concurred, gave us the $4 million to outfit many markets that don't have that capacity now. So we have $4 million. It's being distributed to States, not evenly. Not every State gets the same amount of money. You can't divide 4 million by 50. What we have done is we have weighted it towards States that have a large number of farmers markets without SNAP capacity, and that way, it is somewhat complementary to what we have been doing through the Farmers Market Promotion Program fun by the Ag Marketing Service and why some of those 1,500 markets now have EBT technology.
So we don't know exactly how the States will administer this. They are given some discretion in terms of how they get the money out, but we expect it might add 4,000 farmers markets to the number, that 1,500 that we have now, that will have the capacity to serve SNAP recipients.
Okay. So why? Well, we know that food access is an issue, and that it's a complex issue, and there's not one strategy alone that will take care of food access problems, but outfitting farmers markets, making them more fully available to everyone is a part of a comprehensive approach. And so increasing the availability of these outlets to SNAP recipients, we think is very important.
It also is very, very important because we have a new food icon that represents the 2010 Dietary Guidelines that suggests people should be eating half-a-plate of fruits and vegetables. Now, these days, farmers markets are more than fruits and vegetables. A lot of farmers markets have value-added products and even soap that is coming from the farmer, flowers, meat, poultry products, grains in some cases, full-service farmers markets.
We, coming down to the radio studio today, walked by our farmers market that is held indoors on Wednesdays when we are not out in the parking lot during the full season, and there's all kinds of stuff there but still predominantly fruits and vegetables at farmers markets. So getting people to farmers markets helps fulfill that half-a-plate goal that we are setting for all Americans.
And then third, Susan, I'll throw this out. This is part of a strategy to make sure that farmers and ranchers have the best possible markets where they can make the best possible income that they can, and we know that particularly for a lot of the smaller and midsized farms in this country, farmers markets have been a very important place for them to vend, to gain their income, and so increasing traffic to those farmers markets helps farmers. And that's what USDA is largely about.
MODERATOR: Reporters, if you would like to ask a question, please let us know by pressing Star/1 on your touchtone pad. As we await callers to get on the line, you mentioned there's 7,100 farmers markets that are in the directory and then 1,500 that are EBT-capable. What is the — that's a big disparity. What is the biggest obstacle for people being able to have EBT-capable at these farmers markets?
DEPUTY SECRETARY MERRIGAN: Well, some of it is the cost of putting in the machine that runs several hundreds of dollars, and then you have the transaction cost. There's a monthly fee to keep the machine going, and then each transaction has a cost. So the more foot traffic you get, the lower the cost is per transaction. So there's all that financial stuff to just get the machine in place and getting it up and running.
There's also a management aspect to this. Someone is needing to run the machine, and so some farmers markets have more of an infrastructure around staffing and management than others. That makes a difference.
There's also, you know, just this, I think, public perception that we need to myth-bust that farmers markets are for the elite, that it's sort of a foody thing. Not at all. In fact, I remember in the olden days when I was here in the Clinton administration and we were working to establish a farmers market in Anacostia in Washington, D.C., here, a very low-income neighborhood in particular where we were at the time working. We see farmers markets all over the country, and they don't only crop up in high-income areas. And so this is, again, a strategy.
It is part of this whole issue about food access. I know there has been a lot of talk about food deserts and is there a food desert here or there and different definitions. I come from a rural part of my State where people can drive a great distance to go to full-service grocery. I notice there was a piece in the New York Post today talking about whether or not this $4 million is a "colossal waste," I think is what their term was, and I don't know. I don't think they have the rural perspective. They talk about these full-service groceries. In their Post, they said there's 36,000 across the country. It's somewhere 36,000 to 40,000. There are a lot of super markets, but in Rural America, they don't necessarily have the population to sustain a brick-and-mortar 7-day, 6-day-a-week grocery, but they might have a couple-of-times-a-week farmers market or once-a-week farmers market that can really serve the local citizens, and so making sure that farmers market is available to everybody, regardless of their income level, seems like a smart path to follow.
MODERATOR: All righty. We've got some callers who have jumped on the line. Let's start out with Obama Foodorama with Eddie Kohan. Eddie.
QUESTIONER (Obama Foodorama): Hi. Thanks so much for doing this call, Secretary. Can you hear me all right?
DEPUTY SECRETARY MERRIGAN: Absolutely.
QUESTIONER (Obama Foodorama): Since there is now this move to make SNAP recipients move into farmers markets, can you comment at all on the IOM report about agriculture policy being used that came out at the Weight of the Nation conference about agriculture policies focusing specifically on obesity reduction efforts, and what is the Department going to do moving forward about making the SNAP program overall healthier, since, as you said, there are a lot of things that aren't fruit and vegetables sold at farmers markets? There's the same kinds of cakes, cookies, pies that SNAP recipients can buy anywhere else also available at farmers markets.
DEPUTY SECRETARY MERRIGAN: Okay. Well, let's see. There are a lot of things built into that question. [Laughs.]
Let me first say that the majority, as I said earlier, of what we see at a farmers market is fruits and vegetables, and it's really a very important place for children. From my experience, children are much more willing to try fruits and vegetables that mom and dad at home have a hard time selling on the plate, because of the whole atmosphere and excitement and all kinds of innovative efforts that people do to vend at those farmers markets. So shifting population to farmers markets and making that connection to where your food comes from, how it's grown, who grows it can be a very important strategy in trying to improve what people eat.
And, again, SNAP is really a very important lifeline for a lot of people, and we want to expand their options, so that they can go to the best place, get the best price, get the best food.
Yep, farmers markets have cakes, cookies, pies, and I think people on nutrition programs are going to eat cakes cookies and pies, just like the rest of us, but we want to be able to expand their options.
We've been working very hard at USDA to myth-bust this idea that fruits and vegetables are too expensive. I hear a lot of people say, "Oh. Well, you know, if you add in more fruits and vegetables to this, that, and the other thing, it's going to create a real price spike." Our own analysis by the Economic Research Service shows that that's not the case. Now, if you want to eat raspberries in January, they're going to be incredibly expensive, but if you want to eat in season and you want to eat certain kinds of fruits and vegetables that contribute to good nutrition, you can do it for as little as 22 cents per-cup equivalent. So we have a lot of great reasons to bring people to farmers market.
They're great for nutrition education. A lot of farmers markets have cooking classes. I know that we do that on our very own farmers market here at the Mall on Headquarters. So those are some thoughts.
I have not yet read the piece that was just released this week. Yesterday, I think, I saw some of the news coverage of it, and I know that HBO has a movie series coming out next week, a film series, and I have requested a copy. I haven't had a chance to review it, so I'm not going to speak to the specifics of that document until I have a chance to consume it. And maybe "consumer it" is a joke. I didn't mean it that way. Maybe I should say "digest it." I don't know. I won't keep going.
MODERATOR: View it, see it. [Laughs.]
DEPUTY SECRETARY MERRIGAN: Yeah.
MODERATOR: Our next caller on the line is Alan Roebke with InformedTV. Alan.
QUESTIONER (InformedTV): Yes. Madam Secretary, as the Farm Bill debate is opening up, farmers out here always remind people that food assistance is the biggest part of the Farm Bill, yet and at the same time, Congress told the American taxpayer in 2008 that the Farm Bill was fully funded. There was offsets made, yet at the time of passage, they said food stamps or SNAP would average $37 billion per year; in fiscal 2011 and 2012, we're going to spend double that, about $76 billion per year. And the taxpayer is wondering will the Secretary have Ralph Chite of the Congressional Research Service update his numbers, so as the 2012 Farm Bill debate rolls out, we can see how incredibly off base the Congressional Budget Office was on giving us numbers as well as the Members of Congress? No one is against feeding the American people, but can we be assured in this Farm Bill debate that we have hard numbers showing what was really budgeted on the 2008 Farm Bill and spent, and will this administration, if they continue, make sure that the Farm Bill is held to the accountability of sound accounting like Collin Peterson, Conrad Harkin, and a busload of Republicans said the thing was fully funded, but the numbers don't show that? Can we have that accountability in the new Farm Bill?
DEPUTY SECRETARY MERRIGAN: Okay. Well, let me say that our Food and Nutrition Service regularly releases information on participation rates and related cost for not only the SNAP program but for WIC and for our school meals program, for TFAP. So this data is in the public domain.
I do not control the Congressional Research Service and what they write and how often they write it. They are the congressional arm, but I am hoping that they are taking full advantage of our most recent data. There is no secret there.
In terms of what is going on in the Farm Bill, you know, that is something that we are anxiously watching here at USDA. We are certainly hoping Congress is able to cross a finish line with a Farm Bill this year, so our farmers and ranchers and people who are running our nutrition assistance programs, people in rural communities who depend our rural development programs and our housing assistance, that we would have certainty and we would know what the playing field is. But I understand there's a short number of days in the legislative calendar. We don't have a House bill yet. We do have a Senate committee-passed bill, and so time will tell where things go.
But, certainly, sir, our data is all public, and we put out regular releases with updates in terms of what the cost and the number of participants are.
MODERATOR: Okay. We go to our next caller, who is with Farm World. It's Matthew Ernst. Matthew.
[No response.]
MODERATOR: Hello, Matt?
QUESTIONER (Farm World): Yes. Matthew Ernst from Farm World. I just had a question about the grant program. You mentioned that different States were receiving different allocations that they could apply for. Where can we find out the different levels for the different States?
DEPUTY SECRETARY MERRIGAN: You know, I actually have that in my hands. I don't know if it is put up on a Web site yet.
I do know that — and this may be too late for your purposes, but it will give me an opportunity to say this, anyhow. In June, we will be relaunching the Know Your Farmer, Know Your Food Compass geospatial map too, which would allow you to go to any State, and it would say — if I went to the State of California, it would say X number of farmers markets, how many have EBT and they're redeeming for SNAP coupons, WIC, senior market coupons, how many farmers are benefiting, how many people overall are redeeming those benefit, and how much money in this most recent pot did California get for EBT. So we will have that there.
I am sure that if you call our Communications Office, they can get you State-specific information in the short term, and I don't know if that is being posted on any Web site.
If you have a particular State, you can ask me.
QUESTIONER (Farm World): Well, I have five, if it wouldn't be too much trouble. We cover Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Kentucky.
DEPUTY SECRETARY MERRIGAN: A little bit of time to work. Just call 202-720-4623, and they will give you the numbers for those States.
QUESTIONER (Farm World): Thank you.
MODERATOR: Dr. Merrigan, any closing remarks on today's announcement?
DEPUTY SECRETARY MERRIGAN: I'd just like to say that this is a small but meaningful put of money. $4 million in the scheme of things is not a huge amount of money, but it can do huge things.
We saw that in fiscal year 2008, we had redemption of $1.5 million in SNAP at farmers markets. Fast forward to fiscal year 2011, that's $8 million. So in that time period, it was a 400-percent increase. If we get more farmers markets online with this capacity, who knows what that number might be next year?
In addition, we have partners in the philanthropic community. There are a lot of foundations that are interested in this. Wholesome Wave and Fair Food Network are two of the leaders. To give you a sense of what's going on here, Wholesome Wave's double-up voucher program is in 300 markets across 25 States plus D.C. What they are doing is they are saying to a SNAP recipient, "If you go to a farmers market where you are using your Federal benefit, we are going to enhance the value of that. We are going to put some private dollars to match those public dollars to incent you to be buying those fresh fruits and vegetables. Same thing is going on in 54 farmers markets across the State of Michigan through the Fair Food Network.
So this is an opportunity where we can also drive some private resources to what is on all of our agenda; that is, healthier eating, half-a-plate, doing it in a way that makes sense for the farm community at the same time.
So that's it, Susan. I thank you for the time.
MODERATOR: All right. Thank you, everyone, who was on the call. That ends today's press call.